H.R. 3200, The America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (168 comments ↓ | 6 wiki edits: view article ↓)

  • This item is from the 111th Congress (2009-2010) and is no longer current. Comments, voting, and wiki editing have been disabled, and the cost/savings estimate has been frozen.

H.R. 3200 would provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending.

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Health Care Costs Money II

A little over $12,000 per U.S. family. That’s the estimated cost of a piece of health care legislation called H.R. 3200, the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009. I don’t know if “affordable” should really be i...

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Zeus Charles

July 16, 2009, 12:28am (report abuse)

We are already over ten trillion in debt and adding two trillion a year to that. We must stop the madness of increasing government involvement in transfer payments or else we will lose credibility in world financial markets and burden our children with impossible commitments.


(logged-in user) July 16, 2009, 11:23pm (report abuse)

If I'm reading page 16 correctly, President Obama has been lying to us.


July 17, 2009, 2:23am (report abuse)

This bill is just the most ridiculous idea that Obama has come up with yet. This is not going to help America, it will put us more in debt and seriously endanger the future of this country and our children's future. Americans should be free to choose for themselves and for OUR children.


July 17, 2009, 11:44am (report abuse)

Before too much misinformation is spread I want to set the record straight on "page 16".

The provision so often quoted by opponents does not mean private insurance companies will be forbidden to take on new policyholders [after the bill's enactment]. It only means that the kinds of policies offered today will not be offered when the bill is passed. New policies, under this law, will have to meet even more strenuous requirements. These new requirements will put some companies out of business and put those that stay in business at an even greater disadvantage.

Public insurance WILL make private insurance obsolete because of the government's power of legislation, taxation, and inflation.

Georgia Realist

July 17, 2009, 11:45am (report abuse)

Its a shame to see that others don't understand that private insurance has been removing choice from our health care options for years. How can a person choose health care for them or their children when the health plans won't extend insurance, or consider the very HEALTH of a parent or child to be a PRE-EXISTING condition.

No, our system today does not allow us to be free to choose. It prevents the most vulnerable members of our society from accessing the best health care in the world.

Hopefully in time even 'warrior' mom's will realize that we all are paying the price for negligence in healthcare. Equal rights includes an equal right to good health.

That is a choice that 1 in 6 Americans are denied. Let's change that so WE and OUR CHILDREN can be proud of our country and the way it cares for its people.

A Broke Californian

July 17, 2009, 1:17pm (report abuse)

This bill is NOT about health or care. It is about federal govt taking massive CONTROL of our lives; what better way to do it? If you don't belive me, take a look at the chart showing (or attempting to show) this massive take over. Just google it. (just like the Cap and Tax, Cap and Traitor bill.) NONE of this is about us, it's all about a power crazed Congress and White House. If they TRULY cared and wanted reform, they would be working on insurance reform, tort reform, tax code reforms for EVERY American, including for themselves!! If anyone reading this cares about their life, liberty, freedom or this country, call write call write call write again and again your Congress members and tell them so! We ALL need to speak up; tell them how angry you are about this absolute nonsense! See www.patientoptout.com, www.cprights.org, Google Beatrice Heghmann lawsuit, read this bill, get real info at Rasmussen Reports, Heritage Foundation, World Net Daily. OPEN YOUR EYES AND SPEAK UP!!!!


(logged-in user) July 18, 2009, 6:37am (report abuse)

"Georgia Realist": (a) Health Insurance does not guarantee Health Care. (b) If this legislation passes, you and your children will eventually have NO choice. (c) The "1 out of 6..." The 47 million uninsured number is incorrect, though often cited. I have gone through the census reports myself. Most are not citizens of the US. Of the remaining, a large majority earn over $50,000 a year. It also states on the census forms that a lot of the uninsured people were only uninsured for 4 months or less. Of the remaining, most would qualify for Medicaid or some other state-run health insurance. They're not being denied medical care if they're going to a non-private hospital. (d)Just for the record, "equal rights" does not include a right to health care anymore than they include a right to food, clothing, or a car or house. "A Broke Californian" listed some very good starting places for research. I beg you to PLEASE do some research before you make a decision.

Fed Up in Virginia

July 18, 2009, 9:11pm (report abuse)

People get real and wake up. Obama's health care reforms will eliminate choice. A central board will control care, not giving patients and doctors choices. Has anyone seen the movie "Gatica?" Health care controlled by an appointed board, not accountable to mere mortals!!! Yeah my car and I will get our checkups at the USPS!!!


July 19, 2009, 11:35pm (report abuse)

The reference to page 16 is not going to eliminate private insurance. It means that after the bill becomes law, new enrollees cannot be enrolled onto the same type of plan that was issued before the law went into effect. They will have to go onto a plan that meets minimum standards for accessibility, coverage, and affordability. But private insurers will still be allowed to offer such a plan.

Existing group plans will be grandfathered for five years but will have to adopt these same standards in that time period.

So will you be able to keep your existing plan? Yes, except that eventually you won't be able to be excluded from it due to a preexisting condition, and it will have to cover at least a minimum set of benefits.


July 21, 2009, 2:05pm (report abuse)

Obama and the Liberal Democrats are lying. Creating massive deficits wasn’t the change we were voting for. Don’t let government take control of 1/3 of our economy, everything they touch they destroy, Mortgage’s, Social security, Amtrak, Medicare, Welfare. Stop The Madness


(logged-in user) July 21, 2009, 11:46pm (report abuse)

ok maybe we can all agree govt in general rarely gets it right. but come on how hard could it be to take over 1/3 of the countries economy? seems to me 2 weeks is plenty of time to iron out all the wrinkles. LMAO! i am sure they will read the bill this time before voting on it. GRRRRR!


(logged-in user) July 21, 2009, 11:53pm (report abuse)

before the stimulus bill passed govt had control of 40% of the economy and 43% after. if cap and trade or govt health takeover passes it will jump to 49%. germany controls 47% and france 49%. "if al quida wants to destroy this country we know and love they better hurry because obama is beating them to it" Rush Limbaugh.

Ohh by the way he predicted every bit of this and nobody believed it would go this far.


(logged-in user) July 21, 2009, 11:55pm (report abuse)

woops edit my above statement its 1/6 of the economy not 1/3.

NO TO HR3200

July 22, 2009, 12:23pm (report abuse)

I DO NOT WANT Government Having my Personal Medical History. I want to have a choice of Private Insurance. What about Katrina, What about the empty Social Security System, How about the POST OFFICE that can barely stay open, and how about the Bill of Rights that gives EVERY AMERICAN THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. I WILL not vote for a Demo again. 2 years and look at us now!. NO to HR 3200


July 22, 2009, 12:26pm (report abuse)

No to HR3200. They are forcing FREE AMERICANS to go on Government Medical Insurance?? We have rights and this "President" is trying to take over our Government Welcome to Russia.

Let's review

July 22, 2009, 12:41pm (report abuse)

@Misinterpretation: It is precisely the "minimum standards" set by some unaccountable Health Standards Czar that will lead to the elimination of private insurance plans. Are people really that deluded to believe that private insurance companies will increase the coverage to match "minimum standards" as set by the government yet lower the monthly premiums consumers must pay? You're far more likely to see private insurance companies dropping those plans altogether forcing consumers to rely on the "public option" out of sheer necessity. And please don't be surprised when you see employers willing pay the proposed 8% of payroll "fine" for not supplying health insurance to employees.

Really, has anyone thought this through beyond the first 30 days of celebration for "bringing about change"?

Andrew Washburn

July 22, 2009, 1:31pm (report abuse)

The government has decided that American's are helpless, we can't help ourselves. Ask yourself do you need help getting dressed in the morning? This is exactly the type of bill that is making people feel like we need government to exist, but we don't. Order yes government no, the fault that most types of insurances don't bid well for you is because someone else made it up to benefit them... you really think all those senators and representative have you, the average citizen in mind with this bill? Think about how many different places government is putting it's sticky fingers, and lastly (not defending) but stop attacking the President it's only his fault it gets approved, then you may release the dogs. Some of you act like he wrote and introduced it.


(logged-in user) July 22, 2009, 3:38pm (report abuse)

@Andrew Washburn, We need limited government. We need to stop this bill. It will not help any american, but obviously. You don't think we should stop this bill, therefore you want universal healthcare. The bill will not work.


July 22, 2009, 5:05pm (report abuse)

ACT NOW AMERICANS! Call the Blue Dog Demos and tell them NO TO HR 3200. Rep Baron Hill 202-225-5315, Rep John Barrow 202-225-2823, Rep Bart Gordon 202-225-4231, Rep Jane Harman (Wants us to have a choice) 202-225-8220, Rep Jim Matheson 202-225-3011, Rep Charlie Melancon 202-225-4031, Rep Mike Ross ( NO ) 202-225-3772, Rep Zack Space 202-225-6265. Call Them and tell them they have your support if they stand firm on this bill. Obama will stop at nothing to endulge his ego. We have the right to choose, We are Americans and we are under attack by Government Takeover. CALL NOW!!!

Read The Bill Americans!!

July 22, 2009, 5:12pm (report abuse)

HR 3200 is a blow to Freedome of Choice, "We the People", is the way its worded. I cannot find a single place in the Bill of Rights that states "ME OBAMA"!. This bill needs to be stopped in its tracks. Go here and read the Bill. Pay Attention to pages 300 on! where its talking about a "Death Counselor" required by Citizens when they reach a spcific age group. Call Congress Now folks http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text?version=ih&nid=t0:ih:255


July 22, 2009, 5:44pm (report abuse)

Coup de Etat are the words!!!.. People we are in Crisis. "Obama bin pushin", is trying to flex his power against the will of the American People. Whats to stop this man from attempting to extend , or, remove Term Limits. Who pays for the illegals? Why not throw open the doors to this nation and let the world come to American for free medicine. Share the wealth ! Take 300 million Americans and take there healhcare without a FREE CHOICE. Speak Up! Call the Congress!. 40 million without, 300 With..How about making coverage for THEM and leave us alone.

Sick of Obama

July 23, 2009, 1:03am (report abuse)

Anyone who believed that man to begin with is an idiot....Obama is a lyer and a cheat and will do more harm to this country than good...Get a clue people and wake up, Its ok to admit you all screwed up by voting him into office. Eventually the rest of us who knew better will forgive you!

Lori M., Arizona

July 23, 2009, 2:21pm (report abuse)

Obama's speech gave absolutely no new information and no clear details. We all know corrections could be made to private insurance but I oppose the government option. Anyone that has worked for government will tell you it this will be a nightmare. We should judge by previous programs and they have shown they are incapable. I hear people state they cannot afford health care but then take expensive vacations, drive expensive cars and buy clothes and luxuries I would never consider. I'm 50 and was brought up that you cannot afford NOT to have health insurance. What I believe should be offered is catastrophic care ONLY. This would cover only those with serious illnesses such as cancers, diabetes, and mental illnesses such as schizophrenia where the individuals cannot obtain insurance or it force them into bankruptcy. Also I am totally against providing to illegal aliens in any form.

Marli Larimer

July 23, 2009, 4:25pm (report abuse)

My private Aetna insurance plan already is the bureaucrat between me and my doctor. My doctor of 5 years switched practices and now my plan doesn't cover her at her new location. Whether that's her new clinic's choice or my insurance company's choice doesn't matter, I've still lost a great doctor that I've seen for almost 5 years. I don't have a choice in this case. I can't see her without paying $200 -300 per visit out of pocket. Private insurance IS NOT about choice, and care, it's about profit. In a single payer system, my doctor would be paid regardless or her address which would allow me to continue my care with her no matter where she chooses to practice down the road.....On a different note, my employer does not offer insurance for my husband or daughter and his doesn't offer it at all so we pay over $700 out of pocket each month for them. It's our largest expense besides our mortgage. And guess what, we just got notice that are premiums are going up by 20%. Yay, us!


July 23, 2009, 5:08pm (report abuse)

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJEBZBpHcNQ to hear Dr. McCoy and her EXCELLENT COMMENTS REGARDING THE ELDERLY AND HR3200.


July 23, 2009, 5:29pm (report abuse)

Its a key component of the stimulus. A wonderful opportunity to create a million civil service jobs and possibly many more! If they are effectively entrenched the US will never be able to get rid of them!


July 23, 2009, 7:04pm (report abuse)

This comes directly from the Clowden-Piven play book, add some Saul Alinsky, and a "Community Organizer" and this is what you get. We all get to be equally screwed!

Julius Bright

July 26, 2009, 7:28am (report abuse)

This old American MAY live long enough to see armed revolt against the Feds in certain parts of USA! Our Founding Fathers were Patriots, and perhaps there are enough armed citizens who have had enough of the bloated Fed. Govt. and will decide to fight back against socialized medicine, HIGH taxes which also cause job LOSSES, control of every aspect of our lives, ID chips in our licenses,etc. We are rapidly losing our Consitutional Freedoms and IF the Govt. takes away the right to bear arms, we are sheep to the slaughter just as has happened in countless countries. All of us need to THANK those Patriots who will refuse to give up their right to bear arms!

Janet Lowery Mobile,Al

July 26, 2009, 10:36pm (report abuse)

There is no doubt that all people deserve the best health care possible, with those unable to afford proper care receiving assistance. There is no reason to interrupt current form of health care being paid for by each individual that struggles but manages to have employer provied insurance that we pay for as well. Finding an avenue to pay for less fortunate families should be the purpose of any legislation proposed, and not be wildly entered into hastily without the people having a vote or opportunity to study and evaluate the greatest spending effort in our history. We may never solve all of the nations problems, but be sure what is decided on is sensible, responsible and right. This will affect every person in this nation and we must not take action to disrupt the economy even further than the politics of the past have already done.

it seems like there are so many factions trying to have it their own way, withourt regard to the results.

Lisa in PA

July 27, 2009, 7:41am (report abuse)

Act now! When you go to your physician's office, talk to him/her about keeping your medical records private to EVERYONE. Write a statement before you go to the dr. to place in your file that the information can not be shared with ANYONE including gov't agencies (except maybe your spouse, children, etc.) Talk to the dr. about providing you health care paid for IN CASH or accepting your current insurance.

I have a family of 6. I haven't spent $23,211/year on healthcare in my life. That's about a quarter of our earnings! Do you know how many people are out there with families as large as ours who are on welfare that we the taxpayers will be paying over $20K per year for? This is UNCONSTITUTIONAL! It's time to stand up and fight!!!

Annie Adams

July 27, 2009, 12:20pm (report abuse)

This Bill is just another phase in the march to Obama becoming the first American Dictator and our so called represenatives following along like sheep to the slaughter. Joseph Stalin said after WW2 that this country would be distroyed without a shot being fired,it would be distroyed from within. When our represenatives descides that our elderly, disabled(old and young),cancer patients are not cost effective and should be denied treatment, that is the same thing Hitler did as well as killing millions if Jews. I ask you is this the kind of country we want? Close our borders, send the illeagels back to their country then we will have jobs, and plenty of medical care for our citizens and legal immigrants. Wake up America before it's to late. A president that would try to make our Veterans pay for their own health care for injuries received in combat should be watched and stopped from distroying our country. Time is running out.


July 27, 2009, 12:25pm (report abuse)

God Bless America the home of the free and brave.If you love America stand up and fight for our rights as citizans of this great counry.

Annie Adams/smada00@comcast.net

July 27, 2009, 12:29pm (report abuse)

This is the way I want to be signed in.


July 27, 2009, 6:06pm (report abuse)

What do you mean I couldn't choose my Doctor? I can choose to have an abortion, but I can't choose the doctor I want to perform the procedure? Best find those wire hangers Joan Crawford suggested I dispose of years ago.


July 27, 2009, 6:17pm (report abuse)

Interesting that this outrage does not note who is eligible. From my reading, anyone can participate, Brits, French, al Qaida, illegal aliens. Where do I sign up?

Joyce Buckwalter

July 27, 2009, 8:55pm (report abuse)

Only "way too many lawyers" could have come up with H.R.3200. I oppose a government committe that decides what treatment/benefit I get (page 30 Sec. 123); health care should not be rationed. We are not a foreign country and SHOULD NOT have failed health care as they do. I do not want government to intrude in my life any more than they have. I will NOT pay so irresponsible women can get an abortion. You can tell that lobbyists and staffers wrote this bill. In the 2010 elections, I suggest we vote for the staffers, not the "representative".


July 30, 2009, 9:33am (report abuse)

What ever happened to you can have what I have (expand the Federal health choices). That is what all congressmen and the President have now. Why can't medicare be the public option? I could write this bill on two pages. Duh!

J. Crowl

July 31, 2009, 12:10pm (report abuse)

All those who voted for Obama, shame on you. If I wanted to live in a country where I had no choices, no freedoms, no rights at all I would have moved to the old East Germany. This is not what America was meant to be, this is not what my ancestors fought for, this is not what my children deserve. Our founding fathers constructed the constitution "one nation under God, with Liberty, and justice" then we go and elect a man who is going to take it all away after more then 200 years of freedom. Put a little mustache on him and it feels oddly fimilar, dont you think. Work hard in your life and you will build something grand, sneek into the country, sit on your butt, let others take care or you and life will be hard, as it should be. Goverment wants to spend money then spend it on our Vets, give them the life they deserve for protecting us against people like Obama. When are we as people going to start looking past the talk and the smiles and make rightous choices instead of easy ones.


July 31, 2009, 7:10pm (report abuse)

H.R. 3200 does not specify the details of coverage. For example, how long may some one stay in the hospital. Which vaccines children may receive. What care will be available to seniors. When you purchase insurance now you have an idea of what you are getting.

America should demand the same information from our governmnet. We should not allow this bill to pass without knowing the details. So write your congressmen, senators, and President Obama, demanding that H. R. 3200 be withdrawn until the details are avaliable for citizen scrutiny.

Opt Out of Obamacare

August 1, 2009, 9:34am (report abuse)

If you dont want it - tell our so called leaders you opt out - http://patientoptout.com

bob d in va

August 2, 2009, 9:39am (report abuse)




August 2, 2009, 11:48am (report abuse)

If this health care bill is so great, why are members of congress and their employees not opting to get in on it? That in itself is very telling. Kind of like "do as I say, not as I do"

ang-ella mac donald

August 2, 2009, 11:27pm (report abuse)


WAKE Up!!!

August 4, 2009, 12:27pm (report abuse)

-Are health lobbyists making these comments? This is about money. You get sick, don't have insurance you go to the hospital taxes & over billing to insurance co pay. Costs are not going to go up they will just be shifted. If there is a public option the government will negotiate rates for everything so costs will be less & insurance companies will not handle so much of the money hence their profits will decline. France pays about half of what we do & they cover everybody and the bottom line is they lives longer. They live longer!!! Get the picture we are getting screwed!Costs are rising about 11% per year so soon the whole system is going to collapse anyway. You can go to modern state of the art Hosp in India & get an operation by USA trained surgeon for about a fifth of what it costs here and that includes travel & stay at a hotel while you recuperate. The govmt doesn't screw up everything. Medicare works!47 million people are at risk.Does it really matter what it costs!

Wake up!!!

August 4, 2009, 12:57pm (report abuse)

Objectively The question is if government incompetence is worse than Corporate greed? Both have their strengths and weakness but the government says no a lot less than an insurance co. Ask a medicare recipient. 47 million American can't afford ins or because of preexisting condition can't get insurance Everyone has an opinion on that unless your sick with no medical care and people are dieing. I think we should do this because it's the right thing and frankly most of us would try to move heaven and earth to pay for this if it was someone we care about that needed medical coverage. Everyone seems to forget that there are real lives at stake and they are relatives, neighbors, friends and coworkers. Lets start acting like Americans! Do the right thing even if it hurts and let the politicians and bean counters argue about how we pay for it.


August 5, 2009, 10:51pm (report abuse)

This thing reminds me of that scene from "The Godfather", the real "Godfather" where people would have to go to him to get anything done.

Don't wait on me to kiss your hand.


August 6, 2009, 7:45am (report abuse)

If a car breaks down 100 miles from home, and the first repairman offers a new paint job, is this fix going to get you home? Individual health care has 4 major parts. Based on disease cure. Post WW2 the technology has developed to Prevent diesases. This is an essential component to cost. One Trillion $ will not make this happen overnight. Wasting money. Propably will take 3 generations to transform. Government in all of its wishs to help, has created a bottle neck choking the issue of this debate today. Commerce legislation that hog-ties interstate activity is one example. HealthCare infrastruture is broken. Not the health care. Not fixing the infrastructure wheels, first, will make the Fed program just like all of their other businesses that they have chosen to manage. All are a disaster. Shuffling money from Peter to Paul is not fixing the internal problems. HR3200 helps 15M citizens. 1Billion per year. Do the math. Many will jump to this program it is free they think.

It's all about $

August 6, 2009, 8:37am (report abuse)

The big problems are the "real" facts have been obscured & the politicians have been impacted by lobbyist money. Most people agree 47 million with no health ins is unacceptable. Health insurance is often not what it seems when someone gets sick. The bankruptcy rate of insured people is proof of that. The health industry, mainly the insurance companies are trying to mislead us to protect their profits. A public option will seriously impact those profits. They are using ideology, fear of big government to distract us from the real facts and stop us from acting in our self interest. The current system will collapse soon if heath care costs are not controlled. This will cause a large chunk of people to loose coverage.So there isn't a choice.Unfortunately we are being saturated with insurance propaganda & too may people are being deceived. The bottom line is we are paying more money for less. Please people forget ideology & think for yourself. The answers are pretty obvious

Joe Mesmer

August 7, 2009, 4:09pm (report abuse)

Not so much in comments but questions a plenty. Will Congress and all federal employees go into the public option? This is a way of saving costs. Being that we are already paying for the uninsured will our premiums go down under the new law? I havn't seen anything to help middle America who are paying for their own insurance, is there help for us? Why can't we take a income tax deduction right off the top of our taxes for what we pay in premiums? Why can't the gov. negotiate prescription costs? Why do they want to pass a bill that they don't even read? There are many things that can be done through oversight that can save a lot of money. Why arn't they doing that now?

A real mess

August 7, 2009, 5:21pm (report abuse)

Our capitalist economic system doesn't work in heath care. Ins by nature is a form of economic socialism. Mixing free enterprise with health care is like mixing oil & water & people who are ill are at a disadvantage. Would you negotiate a bypass operation with the hospital after having a heart attack?Ins cos are not really competitive. All health care providers are trying to maximize profits thus driving up costs sometimes needlessly. Then the health care providers offset the people who can't pay by charging the people with ins care more.Everything pushes the system in a non competitive direction. Nothing is going to work unless the govmt puts in tough regulations. There is a lot $ on the line and realistically what does a ins co provide other than cash management & a bureaucratic billing system. I don't understand why people cling to Ins co.The Ins co are trying their best to keep Govmt out of it. The Govrmt might do do a better job for less,Medicare seems to do a good job.

E. Sandy Blaize

August 8, 2009, 11:13pm (report abuse)

It looks like this administration wants whatever funds I have after taxes to shore up this massively ridiculous spending that is going on. "Government" has a very bad track record of instituting campaigns for bills that will "save us money" which wind up costing many, many times more than they claim it will save!

They ONLY way I would be for this bill, i:

1.) Exclude illegal aliens from benefits.

2.) Make it mandatory that all government employees, congressmen and officials, INCLUDING the Executive branch, be enrolled in the same identical program as "ordinary citizens".

To do otherwise is sheer folly.

Something needs to be done- NOT THIS!

August 8, 2009, 11:24pm (report abuse)

Granted our healthcare system leaves a lot to be desired, but as a Tricare recipient I can assure you that the current government healthcare system leaves much to be desired (I'm sure people on Medicare can attest to the same).

STOP frivolous lawsuits, decrease malpractice insurance- don't force the rest of the nation to carry the load for ILLEGAL aliens (I'm all for LEGAL immigration). I'm anything BUT a Republican and I'm sick over this........... better call the military treatment facility- oh, that's right- no appointments available- oh well, all they ever prescribe is Sudafed and Motrin anyways. UGH!

Love thy insurance co?

August 9, 2009, 9:30am (report abuse)

People are just going to let their ideology blind them to the facts. Our health care system is going to price itself to the point of being almost unaffordable & will collapse soon. THERE IS NO CHOICE! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! We are being charged too much.It's obvious: other countries can deliver quality care for a fraction of what it costs here. The health industry mostly ins cos will have to curtail their profits. The health Cos are funding lobbyists and buying off politicians and promoting a misinformation campaign. Ins companies deny benefits far more than Medicare. We can all find some complaint about this but when people get sick and they get left out in cold because their ins co found a way to not pay, then people loose their lives or everything of monetary value. 70% of bankruptcies ate health related and 50% are people with health ins.Ins co are not these warm fuzzy people who care. They are a for profit business run by sharp immoral bean counters. Think about it!


August 10, 2009, 5:07pm (report abuse)

Now the bill is a mere 1017 pages...just wait until the 'pork' gets added - how sad that will be. Socialism is just a vote away, folks. Who would be a voice of reason on this - we need him or her NOW!!


August 10, 2009, 5:18pm (report abuse)

While some aspects of the bill are really not that bad, and probably would improve our health care system, I am opposed to the passage of this bill based solely on one issue, and that is end of life care. Sarah Palin referred to them as death panels, but in legal terms, HR 3200 calls it a "consensus organization". Read pages 431-432 on end of life care, and then jump forward to pages 620-633 which define what a consensus organization is and how "quality measurements" will be established. To me, this is the quintessential set up for a fascist style government takeover. This is precisely what the Nazis did to Jews when they did selected the "fit" and sent them to labor camps while sending the young, weak, and old to the gas chambers. Be afraid people, be very afraid!

Paul, Ohio

August 10, 2009, 5:19pm (report abuse)

What happens when your work place decides it does not want to offer heallth insurance any more? You are let to either find a private company or go on the government plan. We see how media care and social security has been working. We have one other from of national health care, its called the VA. Aek any vertern about their dealings with the VA. My wife's father was a Vet. He paid for private insusance so that he could be sure that he could see a doctor. The state health system in Mass. is going broke and can't control costs. One last comment: when was the last time a government plan was plan came in at the actual budget or saved the amount of money it was said to do?

to realist: & Paul in Ohio

August 11, 2009, 10:00am (report abuse)

Wow! You are quoting Sarah Palin as an authoritative source??? It would be hilarious if 47 million people don't have health care & countless others die or file bankruptcy because their insurance co won't cover them. Even though your conclusions are not true I can see your personal concern about a fitness test. If that happens intelligence testing would probably be a component & Sarah Palin & her follower would have a great deal to fear. I am sorry to make my point in a sarcastic disrespectful manner but use your brain & have some compassion. The politicians & bean counters as well as the government are going to screw us whatever we do but does anyone think health insurance companies are better? Nobody seems to want to talk about all the times Insurance co deny claims.--To Paul from Ohio Ever hear of Medicare? Yes VA isn't perfect but it's far better than nothing.47 million have nothing!Go have your tea parties & Sarah can watch Russia from her porch and let the adults handle things!

Red Stater

August 12, 2009, 11:50am (report abuse)

This costs too much money. We need that money for wars not health care. We also need to get rid of social security and medicare so we can use that money for wars also.

I'm sure every senior will agree that government regulated health care is bad and will be willing give up medicare and pay out of pocket for their own health care. If not they are un-American.


August 12, 2009, 10:24pm (report abuse)

"Let the general government be reduced to foreign concerns only, and let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce, which the merchants will manage the better, the more they are left free to manage for th...emselves, and our general government may be reduced to a very simple organization, and a very inexpensive one; a few plain duties to be performed by a few servants." Thomas Jefferson.


Snr. star

August 13, 2009, 2:45pm (report abuse)

Well Red Stater, i paid taxes for over 50 yrs to the government. now, after my insurance company cheated me out, i have no money to pay for my own insurace. I would have died without medicare, and I am a true American. So I don't aggree that government regulated health care is bad, and do not want my tax money being use on killings others; I want it for saving me.

To the conservative right

August 14, 2009, 7:09am (report abuse)

I hope Redstater is being sarcastic but in any case.I live in Mich & his brother Fred lives down the street from me. Fred is not his real name but I jokingly call him that. Fred's a great guy & like him a lot but a few months ago we were talking and Fred let me know that the Earth has only been here for 6 thousand years. He got this from the Bible. I of course very reasonably asked him about all the archeological evidence. He told me that was just made up. So Dinosaurs and man were on the Earth at the same time? Right? He huffed a bit & admitted that it had to happen that way.I prodded him a bit 'you mean like Fred Flintstones? He suggested I go home.(laugh)This is a true story.My point is too many people are not paying attention to the facts. Instead they listen to talk radio supported by the big insurance and can't think for themselves and won;t believe anything Health care is just too important.I hope America is smarter than Fred & Redstater.


(logged-in user) August 16, 2009, 2:43am (report abuse)

To the conservative right: that's really a quant folksy story you've got there. Seriously makes me wonder what you're up to.

Fact is I don't want the gov. nosey-ing around in my medical history any more than I want the church butting into my sex life. Do you really believe Nixon was the only man to arrive in Washington with a list of political enemies and an agenda? The church, the government and organized crime all have the kind of track record that should be sending chills down your spine. Know your history because in all of time human nature hasn't changed one bit. The names of the players are always in rotation but the game is still the same.

Man who know Fred 1/2

August 16, 2009, 7:36am (report abuse)

To Sage: I agree with a lot of what you say but the rubber meets the road when you get sick & ins co are not giving a lot of people and honest deal & frankly Ins cos are keeping pretty detailed information on you now with the intent of denying you coverage and they exchange it with each other especially prescription records and the medication your taking is a clear indication of what wrong with you. Almost everything people are afraid the government will do ins co have been doing for years and a lot of people are getting hurt because they are using it to deny coverage when you get sick. I understand all your fears but we got it now anyway.Nothing is perfect but by and large medicare works.The Govrmt doesn't screw everything up.If costs continue to rise at the projected rate in a few years the system will price itself into a crash.So what choice is there?It frustrates me to listen to people argue against this and either ignore the facts or cite political reasons to thwart this.

Man whoe know Fred 2/2

August 16, 2009, 8:04am (report abuse)

People are listening to conservative talk radio like Rush Limbaugh or Glen Becks or Fox news. It's easy to make a humorous criticism but they never offer real solutions & what were left with is no solution witch corresponds to the political motives of the Republican party who is sucking up every lobbyist dollar they can get.Look at the senators in the finance comt they all got big bucks from the health indus. The health ins co profits are going to get hurt & they are trying to manipulate it & we are the pawns. Get cancer & have your ins co deny coverage or no ins at all. It ceases to become a political argument.Look at the people in your life you care about & ask if you want to be faced with that. Ask why France pays half of what we pay & the people live longer. These are the facts but too many people believe propaganda.People can't see beyond the end of their nose until it bites them & it will!I assume you know how to use Google. Don't believe me ck-out complaints on ins co.

Rick Royem

August 16, 2009, 11:34am (report abuse)

At an average cost of $3800/ per person with everyone insured would save me personally close to $8000 a year in insurance costs


(logged-in user) August 16, 2009, 12:33pm (report abuse)

To Man who know Fred: I've never listened to talk radio. I have read plenty of history though. We have business laws to handle the issues with the insurance companies. If the Pres. and Congress actually cared they would be helping the people enforce these laws not making the ultimate power grab. It's that simple.

Man who knew Fred

August 16, 2009, 5:06pm (report abuse)

To sage: You don't trust the govmt but yet you trust the laws are being enforced by gvrmt???? My point is the ins co are probably worse than the govmt & your fear of what you suspect the govmt might do the ins co have been doing for years.We are not getting a fair deal on what we pay for health care evidenced by what other people get and pay in the world.I heard 35 trillion dollars is paid in this country every year for health care.You want a conspiracy?-- with that kind of money involved you could probably throw out most laws.Personal privacy is kind of a joke with what can find out about someone for a few $ on the computer and freedom isn't worth much if your sick and dying with no health care.Many state have regulation stopping people from suing co. You want to talk about power.Ins co use the money they collect to invest in stock hence you would be hard put to find any major corp that doesn't have ins people as directors.You got your sight on the wrong bogeyman.

Disgusted with America

August 17, 2009, 8:56am (report abuse)

Well it looks like the Insurance industry won. No public option will mean the insurance industry will find a way to continue giving America a bad deal. It appears they found a way to compromise a few conservative Democratic Senators and Obama with all his impressive rhetorical skills is going to be reduced to spinning this in a positive way to suggest he actually accomplished something when in reality.the Republicans largely offered this deal in the beginning and they are getting exactly what they offered and most of them won't vote for it anyway. Same Washington Scam. They scared the ignorant dumb nut jobs to act country to their self interest. Politicians betray voters and Big Business wins! American citizens loose!!!


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 10:49am (report abuse)

To Man Who Knew Fred: No we are not getting a fair deal in this country, not compared to what we pay. But if you check that drop-down menu up at the top of the page, you'll see that NO ONE was offering to do this for Free! The added cost for a family of four would amount to $15,569.27. The cost for a family of six would hit $23,353.90. That, my friend, is on top of the 40 -50% the government is already taking with all of it's assorted taxes, and licensing.

It high-time our Legislative branch learn the meaning of fiscal responsibility and how to work within the defining parameters of our Republic. It's bad enough their Dept. of (so-called) Education has our children thinking that ours is a socialist government, why should we stand by and let Congress start acting like one.


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 10:53am (report abuse)

There are certain inalienable rights that I refuse to give up and one of them is openly criticizing public servants that step out of line. How much of that can be done when the government holds all the cards; your paycheck, your family's access to health care and every known food and chemical allergy among you. Freedom is worth everything! I exercise my right to good health with every choice I make.


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 10:54am (report abuse)

I will gladly call BULLSH*T on this scam we call health insurance. They are nothing but top-feeding, parasitical, beasts that have driven our medical costs through the roof! Health insurance is only in demand because of the high costs that they have created. On top of that they've scammed Congress into passing laws that guarantee their own existence. It's the ultimate (legalized) protection money; racketeering at it's finest. To let the Federal Government in on it and control it; to take their cut -is just adding insult to injury when what we need to do is file our complaint with the federal courts and test the constitutionality of these laws.

It's time America woke-up and realized we don't need a strong all-powerful government. We need strong, well educated, Americans.

Man who knew Fred

August 17, 2009, 11:46am (report abuse)

To Sage; Nothing is fair! It's about money & power and whereas we might be right they are only empty words. We don't have the power or leverage to make a change. Our choice here can be summed up as pick your poison. I believe the Govrmt is an improvement over the ins cos.As far as the cost it's not so simple The Govmt & ins co are already paying most of that through cost shifting & increased cost when people end up going to emergency room instead of a primary care doctor.Maybe you're right from an idealist point of view but from a practical point of view providing good health care to as many people as possible is the goal & this a vast improvement over the current system. Seriously maybe your dislike of big government is clouding your perspective.I think we need to make a compassionate practical decision that saves lives regardless of ideological distaste.It's really a different paradigm when illness strikes someone you care about & their left with no way to afford health care.

Joyce Davenport

August 17, 2009, 2:44pm (report abuse)

Very simple--remove clause from insurance companies--pre-existing conditions are not used against client. There cannot be a lifetime cap on your medical insurance.--This would take care of most people, the other 3% go to Community Care Centers and are taken care of on a sliding scale according to their income. This stuff the way they are trying to do it--will slow us down--it will lead to rationed health care. The health care system works, but must have barriers removed!


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 4:21pm (report abuse)

Thank you, Joyce!

TO: man who knew Fred

It's not a simple matter of picking my poison when you take into consideration the chilling effect this bill would have on freedom of speech. If this bill dies, freedom of speech lives another day.

Taking on the giant corporations is something we'll need those voices for. In 1952 GM's CEO claiming "what is good for General Motors is good for the country." Those days are long gone

While the sales of the Top 200 largest corp. in the world is the equivalent of 27.5% of world economic activity, these firms employ only less than .78% of the world's workers. 82 of these are US corporations. Of them 44 did not pay the full standard 35 percent federal corpo-rate tax rate during 1996-1998. 7 of the firms actually paid less than $0.00 in federal income taxes in 1998 because of rebates. Walmart, the world's largest private employer w/1.4 million employees has been allowed to exploit part-time workers to avoid providing health care benefits.


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 4:30pm (report abuse)

But the really interesting part is that The 82 U.S. companies on the Top 200 list made contributions to 2000 election campaigns through political action committees (not including soft money donations) that totaled $33,045,832. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, corporations in general outspent labor unions by a ratio of about 15-to-1. The group also found that candidates for the U.S. House of Representatives who outspent their opponents were victorious in 94 percent of their races.

Of course global corporations also spend massive amounts each year influencing the political system through lobbying. The exact amount spent on these activities is not known, but of the Top 200 firms, 94 maintain ''government relations'' offices located on or within a few blocks of the lobbying capital of the world Washington, DC's K Street Corridor.

So you see 'we the people' will need our voices more than ever, now that Congress in a wholly subsidiary of corporate America.

Man who knew Fred 1/2

August 17, 2009, 6:05pm (report abuse)

To Sage:I believe if the insurance companies don't have meaningful competition we will be screwed. Michigan has mandatory No fault coverage on autos. We have one of the the most expensive insurance cost in the nation & it's not related to claims.I heard part of a news program that there are a couple of states that have health co-ops and they don't work very well. I missed which states But specifically explain to me why insurance companies with all the problems will be better than the government..At best they are incestuous economic socialism combined with a freemarket flavor that doesn't work. Not to be argumentative but I really don't get why people are in love with these busyness and defend them so.

man who knew fred 2/2

August 17, 2009, 6:08pm (report abuse)

acknowledge most of what your saying but all I want is affordable available health care. The current system doesn't do it.Why screw ourselves over what we can't change. Take what you can get and move on. What is being proposed is an improvement. A lot of real lives are at stake. -You sure you aren't listening to talk radio? You seem fixated on ideology and offer only criticisms but so solutions which is their patterns. Fred does that too I might add.(laugh)I frankly don't think we had an independent president since Theodore Roosevelt.I find it fascinating how many changes he made that impact out life now.He was actually proposed health care reform.Sometime you have too choose between two choices that are not the best but will do the most good with the least damage. What would you do to change things?


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 8:29pm (report abuse)

You're the only one that can answer that. Why don't you have access to affordable health care? Do you have a good job? Could your job be better if you had a degree? Do you run your own business? If so, have you checked with the Small Business Administration or the United States Federation of Small Businesses?

Or maybe Obama can start collecting back taxes from those 82 giant corporations and we can start cleaning up the national debt and creating real jobs not the phantom jobs these blood-sucking, leaches promise. If he could accomplish that he'd be doing something.


(logged-in user) August 17, 2009, 8:32pm (report abuse)

That should be 'leeches'. Sorry.

Man who knew Fred 1/3

August 18, 2009, 10:12am (report abuse)

to Sage:I lost coverage when I got laid off due to downsizing. A common occurrence in Michigan's job market. I am healthy but I have a couple of minor medical conditions that are well controlled by medication but it puts me in high risk group and I can't purchase insurance at anything approaching an affordable price and with exclusions for pre-existing conditions it would be dubious benefit anyway.I worked for several major corporations and probably had better health coverage than most people but now when I might need it I can't buy it.I tore cartilage in my hip many years ago and I treated as an nuisance. It has gotten more serious in the last year.The surgery here would cost 40k-60k.I can afford it but that will hurt my retirement plans. I can get it done in India for about 6k with travel but the last place I want to be is 10k miles from home in a hospital bed so it makes me nervous but my problems are a joke compared to a friend I got.

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