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H.R. 2254, The Agent Orange Equity Act of 2009 (902 comments ↓ | 3 wiki edits)
H.R. 2254 would amend title 38, United States Code, to clarify presumptions relating to the exposure of certain veterans who served in the vicinity of the Republic of Vietnam.
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CRT
May 8, 2009, 8:01am (report abuse)Same old BS from before. All they want is to get money they don't deserve. They were not exposed but want everyone to think so. VOTE NO!
James C.
May 8, 2009, 4:33pm (report abuse)Can someone explain to me how a person in an airplane at 35000 feet could be exposed to any of this stuff? And just how far out is "offshore"? It just doesn't make sense to me.
R. Ross
May 9, 2009, 10:47am (report abuse)We who served in the coastal waters off Vietnam were also exposed to Agent Orange through the "water runoff" into the coastal waters of Vietnam, which adversely affected our shipboard water distillation process, and contaminated our drinking, cooking, and bathing water. All this in addition to the "wind drift" factor that blew Agent Orange towards our ships off the coast of Vietnam, have resulted in many of us sick with Agent Orange related ailments.
CRT
May 9, 2009, 1:44pm (report abuse)Oh bull fritters. "Water runoff and wind drift" are both figments of the imagination of a few greedy twits trying to get paid for something that did not happen. These are the same old stale arguments that have been used for years.
keycop
(logged in user) May 9, 2009, 11:03pm (report abuse)These are the same haters that did not believe that AO harmed anyone. If you look it up AO useage was not just in Vietnam.
CRT
May 10, 2009, 5:56pm (report abuse)keycop,
No hater here. I know it was used elsewhere. Cases in Korea and Thailand, for instance, have been approved. Just don't see any believeable proof that it could have happened as R. Ross said for the blue water navy folks.
DUALSPORTRIDERFL
May 11, 2009, 12:41pm (report abuse)About the Thailand Veterans.
Please read this.
http://www.viet-remf.net/The%20Exclusion%20of%20Thailand%20Veterans%20R...
dualsportriderfl
May 11, 2009, 12:42pm (report abuse)http://www.viet-remf.net/The%20Exclusion%20of%20Thailand%20Veterans%20Repor...
Carnac
May 11, 2009, 3:39pm (report abuse)Sitting portside in Vietnamese harbors is no different than being on land as far as possible exposure, otherwise everyone on land would have contracted something.
Mike E C
May 11, 2009, 3:45pm (report abuse)This issue has been bantered back and forth for years only after twisting the VA's arm to recognize the damage done to ALL Vietnam Veterans. Too many legal issues that keep getting twisted as time goes on and the Vietnam Vets die off.
Karen 44822
May 11, 2009, 5:51pm (report abuse)How many of you voting NO, actually faught in VietNam? May be you should have spent 4 years in that country, with the people that you helped during the day shooting at you at night. Some of our Vets are seriously ill from the
affects of Agent Orange how would you feel if you were seriously ill and you could not get help
Jo Jo
May 11, 2009, 8:46pm (report abuse)Karen 44822
It looks like you do not have a grasp of the situation. There is no one here who says that those who were on the ground in-country do not deserve compensation. Or that others were also exposed in Thailand and Korea. What is hard for many to swallow is the fact that blue water navy folks who never set foot on land claim their water was polluted. Or that they herbicide "wind-drifted" over them while out at sea. And the folks who flew 35,000 feet overhead would also be covered, even though there is no way they were ever exposed. So before you start throwing rocks get your head out of your rear and try to understand what is happening here.
Texas
May 11, 2009, 9:31pm (report abuse)Jo Jo,
Maybe you have never watch the horrors as your Navy spouse lay dying because he handled the Agent Orange that was loaded onto the planes before it was flown over Vietnam. Conaminated personnel, equipment and aircraft.
If you saw your spouse die from Agnet Orange diseases, then you might have a different attitude.
Jo Jo
May 12, 2009, 8:18am (report abuse)It is amazing that any of this stuff was ever sprayed. From all the stories about leaking drums told by navy folks it would seem that it all leaked out before it got there.
Texas, IF it happened, then all that is needed is proof from the ship's logs to file a claim. And that is what all of this is about, filing claims in order to get paid.
TEXAS
May 12, 2009, 9:40am (report abuse)It is not as simple as getting ship logs for proof. The VA says a navy sailor was not exposed to AO unless he had boots on Vietnam soil. You can present ships logs to the VA all day long about AO on ships, but the VA WILL NOT PAY FOR CLAIMS UNLESS YOU HAD BOOTS ON THE VIETNAM SOIL. That is why this bill was introduced. Evidently, you have not been paying attention to the court cases surrounding AO.
My husbands AO claim was filed in 2003 and was denied. His appeal was denied and now he is dead.
Have a good day.
Jo JO
May 12, 2009, 9:53am (report abuse)Oh dear, I have paid very close attention. The amount of crying and moaning has been tremendous. And still there is no real proof that any of this exposure ever really happened.
The AO claims can be won IF you have the proof. The "boots on the ground" defense does not apply in cases of direct exposure, which you are claiming is what happened. Since you had no proof the case should have been denied.
R. Ross
May 12, 2009, 3:29pm (report abuse)This is for the edification of CRT:
The Australian government probed deeper. Australia's investigation generated a report that explained how its sailors in the waters of Vietnam were exposed.
Warships require a constant supply of freshwater and that supply is replenished by distilling sea water. The sea water is fed into an evaporator where it is boiled, condensed, and then fed into holding tanks. While the process removed the salt from the water, it did not filter out the toxins associated with Agent Orange. This process routinely took place within close proximity to shore as military operations did not allow a ship to cease its mission, travel out to sea, replenish its water supply, and then return. The Australian study concluded that Agent Orange sprayed in the jungles close to shore found its way into the ocean and that when the RAN ships replenished their water supply, they unknowingly contaminated their sailors and exposed them to Agent Orange.
CRT
May 12, 2009, 3:43pm (report abuse)I've read all the Australian stuff. It has not been validated and cannot be called "proof" that any person onboard an american ship in the South China Sea was exposed. If there was so much runoff why then does the government of Vietnam still claim all the contamination still exists on the ground? Unless you can provide some validation of the Australian "studies" you are just throwing up the same old tired BS that has gone before. And exposure to dioxin, which is what you are really claiming could have occurred from many other sources on board. Why is it that no one wants to pursue that? Because each individual would have to prove exposure. And that would take proof. And that would cause most these "claims" to be dropped because they are without merit in the first place.
FrankJ47
May 12, 2009, 9:46pm (report abuse)Was in Amphibious Navy 100 yards off shore near DMZ and based on the numerous illness's that I have w/o any apparent cause I got to look at AO as a likely culprit.
mrk
May 12, 2009, 10:34pm (report abuse)I was at that place knowone knew
new how wewere getting sick,but we were. some the sickiness that we pick up all the way to Yankee Station one was nonhodgkins limphoma and birthdefects
Someone had gone back in the 90's to test the ground and after all this time it was strong as ever( agent orange).The Australians made made their studies and found proof
The United States has maded studies
also and I'm sure they have come up with the conclusion as the australians,but I think like alot of other viet nam vet's they want us to die off before they fulfill
there promise.
All,I can say is that I was there as a young man and I have all the symptoms,I had no family history of the illness I have and they're all on the agent orange list.
Why is that?
starabcd@yahoo.com
May 13, 2009, 1:38am (report abuse)The Navy as I was there did there job and we will exspect congress to
do what's right and pass that bill
my god men how many more must die?
I was there and we did see the big gun fire all night that is close!
CRT
May 13, 2009, 8:45am (report abuse)Ok, then are all these diseases ONLY caused by exposure to AO? If that is true how is it that the guy across the street, who has never been in the military, never even been out of the state of Missouri in all his 62 years, now has prostate cancer and diabetes? The simple fact is that more and more people are developing all these diseases every day even without any family history. Lifestyles and the things around us are killing us off. If you want to blame somebody why not look in the mirror.
FrankGQ
May 13, 2009, 3:09pm (report abuse)Wish You na sayers where there and have all the problems i have Thank you Us Gov.! and Na sayers enjoy your self and enjoy Your Freedom One of the days i wish i had gone to canada Thank you again
Frank
CRT
May 13, 2009, 3:31pm (report abuse)Frank, it isn't too late to go. I'm sure the Canadians would love to have you.
FrankGQ
May 14, 2009, 9:58am (report abuse)crt
You seam to be so smart please tell me why i should leave i have served this country and pay my taxs i service the little hand pumps that sprayed this crap in thailand in person. but you didnot i am still fighting to get help as is many others. as far as drift by wind ck out how far toxin can drift from smoke staks. Gee across many states!
just a little more that a few yard over water Thailand and other countrys want us to clean up this mess maybe you could be drafted to go Would you go knowing that when you come home again you would no help.
CRT
May 14, 2009, 11:44am (report abuse)Frank,
You said " i wish i had gone to canada." I said you still could.
IF, and that is a big IF, you had direct exposure to AO, all you have to do is prove it. What is so hard about that? Or is it that you were simply spraying weed-killer and want everyone to believe it was AO?
Do you even understand how the stuff was sprayed from the air? It was mixed with jet fuel or other similar products to make it heavy so it would sink to the ground. Your smokestack analogy doesn't work.
Please get yourself educated about this stuff before you attempt to hold an intelligent discussion.
Bob P.
May 15, 2009, 4:28pm (report abuse)I don't know how some people can be so uninformed. We operated very close to shore with air intakes open you could always spell the diesel fuel used with AO.
As far as compenstation if you have a problem it would only ammount to 200 a month. In my case they can keep the money I am more concerned with future problems related to AO and not be able to cover the expenses.
CRT
May 15, 2009, 4:50pm (report abuse)More likely the smell coming from your own stacks. Just another whine.
LJM
May 16, 2009, 2:58am (report abuse)I have read the posts here. You know what Blue Water Navy Folks? It does not matter what the people here say against you, they are probably DVA insiders and they are never going to agree with you. So don't try to change their minds or argue with them, THEY ARE NOT WORTH THE HASSLE!!
CRT
May 16, 2009, 11:02am (report abuse)Actually, LJM, if by DVA you mean the Veterans Administration, you are incorrect in your supposition. The folks against this idiocy are just average folks who see it as nothing more than a greedy grab for compensation that is undeserved.
Jim M
May 16, 2009, 7:47pm (report abuse)Ok, I read all of the comments for & against this bill. In all due respect for everyone's opinion on the agent orange subject other factors should be considered. I never applied for disability, I was contacted by the VA & invited to use their services. I already had suspicions after prostrate cancer hit me. I survived & willingly took up the governments offer. They told me that somehow I had been exposed, all the symptoms pointed to agent orange. While I told them that this was impossible they politely explained I was wrong. This was a scary moment for me. How in God's name did I get poisoned? I am grateful for the fact that this nation takes care of its veterans, VA has given me the benefit of the doubt. Agent Orange has given me dioxin. As a person who never smoked my lungs are slowly be destroyed. My nervous system is going crazy & leaves me with parts of my body with no feeling. I hope to live a little longer, if not for me then for my life's partner. Thanks Jim
R. Ross
May 17, 2009, 1:05am (report abuse)To CRT: First of all, most of bull, that borders on hateful buffoonery, seems to be coming from you. You say verification? The Aussies have validated the AO research by paying presumptive DX claims to their sick Vietnam Royal Navy vets. Univ. of Utah Chemistry Dept. has run tests confirming that co-distillation of water containing AO magnifies the toxicity level many times. Yes, I actually agree with you, we are talking about dioxins, Agent Orange dioxin. .. You throw in the Vietnam regime. If the Vietnamese told you Uncle HO loves you, and the Earth is flat. You'd buy that? Now, I fully expect you to go off on a tangent about the color orange. The fact that you are not convinced, is pretty much irrelevant. .... Just think about it, you are actually opposing guys who have been awarded the Vietnam Service Medal, or the Viet Campaign Medal, and they are SICK with at least one of the DX on the AO presumptive list. Sounds like you have other problems unrelated to this conversation.
CRT
May 17, 2009, 3:10am (report abuse)R. Ross,
There was no, repeat no, testing done in the waters off Vietnam to determine IF any runoff ever occured. Since you can't verify that there was ever any runoff how can you claim there was any dioxin in the ship's distillation units from this so-called runoff? Answer - you can claim it all day but you cannot prove it. And that is the problem for all the blue water whiners - there is not proof.
As to the Vietnam Service Medal, that is not proof that anyone was anywhere near the contamination. You realize that people who supported the war from afar were also awarded this medal, don't you? So how does the storekeeper out at Yankee Station deserve anything, just because he got a medal? The same applies to the campaign medals. Get the facts straight before trying to blow smoke up anyone's pantleg. You and your shipmates have been spewing this same tripe for years to no avail. At least try to find something new to spout off about.
FrankGQ
May 17, 2009, 12:37pm (report abuse)For Proof Of Wind Drift All a person with any brain would have to is look at any of the many pictures or movies of the air craft spaying and you can see the dirction of the wind. As a Storm Chaser for 15 years wind can carrie Base Ball size hale what make anyone think it will not carrie agent orange no mater what is used to thin it with the spray was made fine to drift and cover larger areas. A Few Facts From someone that was there Thank you
Frank KG8GQ Let See You Mr Crt Tell the Truth KG8GQ Is my Ham radio Call Only one With That Radio Call in the World Look It up. Let see you Put your Name on what you say
mf
May 17, 2009, 2:20pm (report abuse)I am glad to see all the chemical companies are represented on this website, or all the opponents of this bill must have been snorting.
CRT
May 17, 2009, 2:53pm (report abuse)Frank, you grasp at any exageration you can to "prove" something happened that did not and could not happen.
If you watch the movies of the spray operations you also see how low the aircraft flew and how quickly the spray fell. I don't remember seeing any spray operations happening in the kind of winds it would take to carry anything away from the spray area. Anyone with a brain would know that a C-123 did not operat in the kinds of winds you describe, especially that close to the ground.
"Base Ball Hale", by which I suppose you mean baseball size hail, certainly would not have been carried by the winds when the spray operations happened.
Get a grip man and get on with things.
FrankGQ
May 18, 2009, 10:25am (report abuse)It Is Good To know That The Plane Were Flying Still air not the normal winds and that even the plane proper were not working to keep the air nice and Still Ha ha It is all so good to know that when a plane had to land because it was hit that the AO was Ditched always on land and never at sea. It is also good to know that Down River Ha Ha
a few short year ago people like would not even admit to ao in vetnam or for that mater even That Air america was in SEA Look it all up if you can find the time
D. Masters
May 18, 2009, 12:36pm (report abuse)S. 727 is much more important than this drivel. Save our horses!
bjofnc
May 19, 2009, 11:55am (report abuse)When we served our country when asked, did not go to canada or hide we were mostly jeered by snotty nosed, spoiled kids whose parents indulged their fantasies and gave them the belief that others can do the messy, non glamourous jobs for them the elite. I just wonder if CRT fits in this group, or the group that spit on returning servicemen and women, or maybe CRT hero is jane fonda, she felt much like he/she does.
CRT
May 19, 2009, 3:02pm (report abuse)And I wonder if bkofnc is one of those drug-addict hopheads who came back from Vietnam and turned out to be worthless to society?
Diana
May 19, 2009, 5:00pm (report abuse)Look I lived with one of these blue water navy types for 25 years. What a sorry excuse for a man. I would rather sleep in the barn with the horses. At least they don't beat on me whenever they feel like it. Vote yes on S.727.
Matt
May 20, 2009, 11:19am (report abuse)My father passed away in 2005 from Agent Orange exposure. He was on a ship at Yankee Station, off the coast of Vietnam. Don't tell me or my family that exposure off the coast didn't happen.
CRT
May 20, 2009, 11:23am (report abuse)Matt,
Sorry for your loss. However to say that anyone whose ship was at Yankee Station was exposed to the herbicides is ludicrous. Do you have any idea how far away that was? Or what you are asking people to believe? I truly doubt you have any idea.
Sim
May 20, 2009, 6:38pm (report abuse)I just lost my husband to Multiple Myeloma. His MD kept saying how aggressive his case was. It took him in less than 2 years. We not only dealt with the cancer, but it caused complete kidney failure so he was on dialysis as well. I have a picture of him on the USS New Jersey (six months off Vietnam) on the flight deck crew landing their 500th helicopter! How can anyone deny that he could not have been exposed to Agent Orange, not only by distilled water by also by air. Please supprot this bill to help others.. Norm kept saying he would not live to see benefits, maybe others will!
CRT
May 21, 2009, 12:35am (report abuse)Just ask any undertaker how many people in their 40's and 50's they see dying of these diseases each week. Now tell me how many of those who died do you think were even anywhere in southeast asia. None. And yet we are supposed to believe that all these veterans are dying of exposure to herbicides. Pure and simple BS. It is all about getting a free ride at the public trough. Nothing more.
D. Masters
May 21, 2009, 1:12am (report abuse)You people are wasting the bandwidth arguing about this trivial bs. Horses are much more important than a few old worn-out veterans.
PASS S 727/HR 503/305/1018
B Edwards
May 22, 2009, 3:01pm (report abuse)Most of you do not know the facts. There were lots of emergency dumps off shore some as far as six miles out in the ocean. With wind drift this could easily reached 12 miles off shore. Read about these dumps on the net and the fact that desalination of seawater will not clean away agent orange. Navy vets off shore were more exposed than ground troops they drank this stuff. More side effects are in Navy personnel than other branchs
CRT
May 22, 2009, 4:16pm (report abuse)Same old unsubstantiated crap that has been spouted forever. No way anyone can ever prove any of the contamination ever happened because no tests have ever been done. Without proof your assertion that navy personnel "were more exposed than ground troops" is nothing but hot air. At least the folks on the ground can prove they were there.
rjrt
May 22, 2009, 4:53pm (report abuse)look at the spina bifida dates for korea dmz exposure also look at the civilian agent orange dates presumptive exposure,both dates are 1967 thru 1971. now comes the veteran timeframe 1968/1969.will h.r. bill 2255 change this timeframe i think not.
R. Douglas
May 23, 2009, 10:33am (report abuse)I served two tours in Thailand in the early 70's. One of the bases
that flew spraying missions of Agent Orange, Purple, Pink etc; was at NKP, Thailand. Regular Air Force and CIA aka Air America flew
spraying missions over Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Burma as well as Vietnam. The government has admitted that they first used the
toxic sprays in Thailand before it's use in Vietnam. They even used the defoliants to clear the
jungle area in order to build the
runways and bases in Thailand. Thousands of U.S. Military and Thai Civilians have been exposed to the toxic sprays. Those who don't believe that the sprays kill
people are fools. Just immagine if
you will, that someone sprayed
"Round UP Weed Killer" in the air
on a regular basis. Wouldn
t you develope illness from exposure from the air, the water and the vegatbles eaten? I say that the bill should be passed to helpo Thailand Vets and an investigation as to the cover-up
take place.
CRT
May 23, 2009, 1:01pm (report abuse)R. Douglas (Another "government conspiracy" nut)
I doubt you have any proof that any "Air America" airplanes sprayed defoliants. If you did you wouldn't be here whining. The C-123s used by Air America in their missions were different airlanes from those used to spray in Vietnam. Absent proof, you are just another in a long line trying to get on the gravy train. Same old song another verse.
The only thing that has been conceded for Thailand so far is individuals who were able to prove direct exposure.
Bein Hoa Joe
May 27, 2009, 3:47pm (report abuse)crt is correct, The sooner we all die the less guilt will be needeed.I was in Operation Ranch Hand in Da Nang and Bein Hoa. Yes we used c-123s Hueys and for shure hand pumps. I have stage four Non Hogkins Lymphoma and will be going to San Antonio for a Bone marrow as soon as my blood is ready. I may not make it but I am ok with that. You see I was on two planes that ditched the complete load both times was aborted to sea. Next mission . How many of todays veterans [God Love EM}are faking PTSD Brain injuries and just in it for a free ride? Uncle Sam taught me not to hate but to kill. I don"t hate you. Iwant you to enjoy all the freedoms and be sure to spit on a veteran today. Sorry about my typing skills, I have a little cancer in my brain also. Have a good day and please stay safe.
KMA
May 30, 2009, 12:00am (report abuse)Bein Hoa Joe,
You should give the BWN folks a buddy letter. If what you say is true, it could prove their case
CRT
May 30, 2009, 12:08am (report abuse)Sure, as long as there is official documentation to go along with it. Buddy letters like that carry about as much weight as bum fodder.
Bob
June 1, 2009, 6:48pm (report abuse)To sim, Sorry to hear about your husband. I also served on the New Jersey during its Vietnam tour. To CRT and the other naysayers, we were working the "gunline" within rifle shot range of the coastline. We never knew about the Agent Orange-water connection. Our evaporators were running constantly except when we sailed into harbor at Singapore. There, they were shut down because of high bacterial and other contaminants in the harbor water that would have passed into the ship's water supply. I'm not looking for VA compensation for my medical issues, only the same medical treatment as friends who spent their "war" in offices at DaNang.
Bob
June 1, 2009, 7:29pm (report abuse)It's about time justice was done for those who were exposed to this stuff. Vote YES
veteran
June 2, 2009, 8:39am (report abuse)you were not happy to see one of the carriers jet when you were pinned down veteran
KMA
June 2, 2009, 11:07pm (report abuse)http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/29/world/main5049204.shtml?source=RS... />
This story tells how the Americans are funding the clean up of dioxins in Da Nang 40 years after the highest concentrations of AO was sprayed. We can clean up Vietnam but can't provide benefits for the veterans who were exposed to AO there. The story says some of the money will be used to clean up the sediment and soil along with containing the dioxin at the Da Nang site to keep it out of the water supply. So sad.
Bob
June 6, 2009, 10:08pm (report abuse)Spent time on an ammo ship and hauled ammo into Cam Rahn Bay, Spraying was going on from the air and we just figured it was bug sparay or something else. We wiped it off our arms and foreheads and kept on working. Today I have type II diabetes, heart problems, sleep problems, and nerve problems. We ALL fought in Vietnam and we ALL deserve to be helped. The gov is waiting for us to die and their problem goes away. VOTE YES!
Charles
June 7, 2009, 8:24pm (report abuse)After the first attack against a Thailand base (Udorn), and similar attacks that follow against other bases in Thailand, the perimeter roads around the bases were sprayed to provide clear viewing and killing fields. I was there during the hand spraying at Udorn after the attack. Numerous photos of clear fields have been taken and shown to verify this. Hopefully the government will acknowledge this one day, and the Thailand veterans will be provided equal treatment for exposure to Agent Orange.
Roger
June 7, 2009, 8:59pm (report abuse)Commenters here who favor passage of HR 2254 must realize that they are posting on a right wing organization site. You must realize that the organizors of this site and many of the naysayers will wrap themselves around the flag when it serves their policital or other purposes. But when it comes to giving out governement benefits, earned or not, they will blindly oppose. It just doesn't fit into their agenda. Oh, and by the way, some of the nay sayers already are collecting disability. What does that tell you about them?
Bob Burns
June 8, 2009, 6:03pm (report abuse)This bill will help many of the Blue Water Navy's many veterans who are suffering from Agent Orange Toxins from Ship's Fresh Water Distillers. Concentrations were much higher due to Increased toxins each time the distillers were run. Presently these Vietnam Vets are denied these rights for treatment and compensation because many can't prove the "Foot on Ground" rule presently in effect. Originally, the rules included this coverage, but some idiot submitted a bill which eleminated Bluewater Sailers from being qualified. This bill seeks to correct this situation.
CRT
June 8, 2009, 7:55pm (report abuse)Just so you know Bob, there wasn't a bill submitted, the VA corrected an error in the way it granted presumption. For the most part, no feet on the ground, no presumption. As it should be.
Charles,
Do you have anything to prove that you sprayed any of the herbicides listed as presumptive. If so you can claim direct exposure and, if you can actually prove your claim, you can gain benefits nased on that exposure. As to any general presumption for Thailand - that is doubtful since no one has any actual proof it actually happened.
SD
June 9, 2009, 3:09am (report abuse)CRT, You must be working for the government or the chemical companies.
CRT
June 9, 2009, 8:27am (report abuse)SD,
And you say this why? Just because I don't believe in this BS I have to be a someone with something to gain? If you are among those who want this to pass then, according to your way of thinking, I have to believe you stand to gain financially from it. In other words you want a check from the taxpayers each month too. And until you get that you will whine and moan. Does that describe you? I'll bet it is very close, if not spot on.
RDH
June 10, 2009, 7:39pm (report abuse)CRT Can't Rationaly Think - has all the BS packed in his double digit IQ head. Take some fish oil -no, take a lot of fish oil - it may help. People are suffering from AO and jackasses like CRT continue to clutter up the comment section with their stupidity. Get a life.
CRT
June 11, 2009, 8:14am (report abuse)RDH,
So if aomeone has a differing opinion they are cluttering up the comment section? And your mental masturbation above is not clutter? Man whatever you have plugging you up must really be something.
I have a life but I seriously doubt you have one outside of your cave.
LSL
June 11, 2009, 1:56pm (report abuse)just so you know, CRT, the VA did not "correct an error" in the way presumption was granted. They illegally changed the wording in the manual to accomodate their own benefit. The wording in the manual in 1991 was quite clear that all vets serving a tour of the Vietnam War, were eligable. You want to express that these vets are merely trying to collect a paycheck..These vets are having to fight for what they have earned, because idiots like you, that they have and are giving their life for,are trying to save a few dollars that the gov't would rather send to another country or give to illegal aliens, or study Mormon Crickets...God help us all.
CRT
June 11, 2009, 8:43pm (report abuse)The error was the assumption that anyone who had been awarded the Vietnam Service Medal had also served in Vietnam. That was not true. A large number of people in the service had the medal and had never been on the ground or, in many cases, any closer than Guam
The VA wrote the manual and the VA hasd the legal authority to change the wording. If that were not so why did Haas lose his case? A great many vets feel they "earned" the right to get a check when in fact thay did not in any way "earn" anything. I don't "want to express that these vets are merely trying to collect a paycheck." That is the truth and I AM saying it.
I would rather spend money on a great many other things before I give one cent to someone who is trying to game the system.
I'll refrain from calling you what I really think you are but it is often described as the north end of a southbound horse. And in this case it also has your head shoved up it.
wheeping widow
June 16, 2009, 8:56pm (report abuse)I see that the same naysayers are posting here that posted against the gastro bill. It all boils down to John Q. Public not wanting to see his taxes raised to cover the cost of care for our veterans.
daklander
(logged in user) June 16, 2009, 10:41pm (report abuse)Let me post this excerpt from an Australian study instigated to understand the RAN findings.
Remember most of the Australian ships in service in Vietnam area were built by the same builders as the USN ships and had the same power and distillation plants.
"Interestingly in this first experiment 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, considered the most toxic of all PCCDD/Fs and the main contaminant in Agent Orange, was found at about 85% of the quantity observed in the control samples and co-distilled to a greater extent than any other PCDD/F investigated here. In contrast, about 10-20% of the hepta- and octachlorinated PCDD/Fs were found in the distilled fraction in the first experiment. These results indicate that distillation of only a fraction of water (a common practice when saline water is distilled for drinking water on ships) will result in a substantial concentration increase of all investigated organochlorine pesticides as well as TCDD/Fs and other lower chlorinated PCDD/Fs."
CRT
June 17, 2009, 1:13am (report abuse)Who gives a flip what some australian said?
FrankGQ
June 17, 2009, 11:14am (report abuse)Who Gives A flip what crt Says!
It time for the goverment to sand up and take care of all American vets of All Wars
Frank
Wheeping Widow
June 17, 2009, 11:26am (report abuse)CRT..I don't think you realize that the VA has very strict standards for "collecting a paycheck." First off, a veteran has to prove his illness was related to dioxins. He is not just handed anything. Second, why should you care? If the veteran deserves compensation, he should get compensation. Just why was it okay to send millions of dollars to the victims of 911 but just let a veteran with an illness, due to his service to OUR country, apply for compensation and everybody gets in an uproar. Why is that? Someone please explain to me just why it's A-ok for 911 victims to literally become millionaires and the ill veteran should be ignored?
I am saddened by the lack of respect this country has for the very men (most just teen-agers) who went to war (many not by choice mind you)and are now suffering the consequences.
CRT
June 17, 2009, 11:56am (report abuse)FrankGQ,
There are a great many vets, including myself, who neither need or want anything from the government. It would appear that you think it is okay to get a handout just because a person is a vet. BS.
Wheeping Widow,
I am fully aware of how it works. Many vets do not have to prove much at all to get their check from dioxin exposure. You said " If the veteran deserves compensation, he should get compensation." That is true. However there are a great many, especially the bluewaternavy types, who do not deserve anything but continue to try to cheat the taxpayer. Those people deserve nothing, not even the respect you seem to think is so deserved.
Wheeping Widow
June 17, 2009, 12:28pm (report abuse)CRT..that is the issue. You don't NEED anything from the VA because you have never suffered an illness due to Agent Orange. You can bet that if you had (and you still might) you would be standing in line with the others. Well, my husband was "boots on ground" USMC and proud of it right up until he drew his last breath. He was never compensated for his cancer because it was not a presumptive cancer. How odd that there was no history in his family anywhere of any cancers, he had no risks for his type of cancer, and yet he died at the age of 57 from an agressive gastric adenocarcinoma. He served in I Corp one of the heaviest spraying areas in Vietnam. Ofcourse he was exposed, if it caused his cancer, I will never know but you can bet that it's a likely possibility.
The problem that I have with this bill is that none of us know just what the veterans were exposed to and to say that they were or were not exposed is just a guess. The benefit of the doubt should go to the veteran!
patricia
(logged in user) June 17, 2009, 1:56pm (report abuse)My husband was a soldier who slept in the swamps in Viet Nam. He had leeches cut out of his body. He walked point man for his troops. He had lung cancer and died. my husband,s claim was not denied and rightfuly so I might add... but some of these guys are just trying to get this compensation and they never went through the hell my husband endured.
LRM
June 17, 2009, 2:41pm (report abuse)I am amazed at the commets. I am being taken care of by the American tax payer. Because I was lucky enough to get cancer, That leaves me guessing when will the end will come?
To those who served, Thank you. To those who have lost loved ones I am truly sorry for your loss.
We were spit on in the 60s. And now we are spit on again in our 60s.
To those who don't have a dog in this fight show a little respect for my brothers who did their job and served our Nation. And please find another sight to show your distane for The Marines and Sailors
of our Country.
CRT
June 17, 2009, 5:18pm (report abuse)LRM,
I haven't seen anyone disrespect any Marine here. On the other hand, there are a great many bluewaternavy types who deserve nothing but disrespect for the way they are attempting to screw the taxpayers.
LRM
June 17, 2009, 5:45pm (report abuse)I was stationed aboard the USS Oriskany. Did your stupid ass not know that we had Marine squadrons aboard Carriers? VMFAW 213. 1965 Now tell me something about your service